Indeed, the Talmudic tract Sanhedrin 100B refers to rabbis with-drawing Sirach, or declaring it to be no longer inspired and thus withdrawn from synagogue reading. First theres a dogma of Theotokos, Mary being the mother of God. While Mary is a conceived in sin creation. So feel free to answer that briefly. Well, actually one other point I will bring up is that some people say the Bible teaches that Mary sinned, because it describes her going and offering a purification in accord with the Mosaic law. Give the person you disagree with a listen, really try to understand where theyre coming from because if after hearing their position, you still disagree with it, at least youll be better informed about what Protestants or Catholics believe so you can better engage them and resist the temptation to attack straw met. Even if Mary were speaking of salvation from sin, she may be speaking about God, preventing her from sinning and saving her in that way, like we might say how a doctor saved someone from a disease by vaccinating them, rather than by giving them a pill to cure them after the infection. Its like, because-. Or Enoch and Elijah who never died because they were assumed alive into heaven. So this question is for Trent. So was Jesus free from sin and he also died? WHY PROTESTANT BIBLES ARE SMALLER: A Defense of the Protestant Old Testament Canon - Kindle edition by Christie, Steve. We use Christian Apologetics to discuss, interview, & debate for God's existence, & Christianity. Its not necessarily saying every single father affirms something, since, as Steve said, you wont necessarily get them all affirming, [inaudible 01:36:48] they dont write on everything. And I think one way that makes sense would be if Joseph had been previously married. Okay. FEIN: 47-5459301. We must be careful, of course, that in Marion devotion, sometimes people use very flowery language that they shouldnt necessarily be taken literally because they love Mary as the mother of God who leads us to her son. Well start with an easy one, the Bodily Assumption of Mary. And it all goes down to the authority of Scripture. Well, oh, can I have a [inaudible 01:22:11]. Steve, youre going to go first with five minutes and then Trent. So there was something sinful about Jesus? All right. I was citing Baukham on that point, and [Greek 00:52:31] is just not used in the New Testament, so its just not a common word. So we have to read the context. Id have to respond individually. So if Jesus has adelphi, he must have had sisters who were born of Mary. He says in Philippians 3:7 that whatever gain he had as a Pharisee he counted as loss for the sake of Christ. In Galatians 1:13 he calls his Jewish zealotry a former way of life, and in 1 Corinthians 9:20 Paul explicitly says he was not under the Mosaic law, which was a non-negotiable belief for the Pharisees. Im not sure that that is in Genesis 19:9. But while infants may not have committed a personal sin, they still need salvation in Christ because they inherited original sin. But if their authority is a Roman Catholic church and the Magisterium, then it becomes an authority issue because then youre submitting to an authority that is also teaching something different about salvation that has nothing to do with these dogmas. The fact that Mary died does not show that she had original sin or that she inherited original sin or that she committed a personal sin. He says, Jesus words would have sounded exactly the same if the narrative of Zechariahs death had occurred in the book of Kings or in the Psalms. Though, I think that is a salvation issue actually. What about after the apostolic age? In Speaking for the Unborn, Dr. Steven Christie offers very clear, convincing, and often witty answers to almost every possible argument in favor of abortion. So do it. What about the deuterocanonical books of Scripture written in the 400 years before Christs birth? Be sure to check out Steve's speech at Wyohackathon.io it was a very interesting talk about the history of money. Christie claims the Hebrew canon was closed by Ezra and other learned men at an event called the Great Synagogue. If anything like the parents hes a good kid, but I cant imagine by the age of seven that his oldest child hasnt sinned one time. Email steve.christie@mrcaustralia.com.au. So the Catholics authority is not balanced on a three legged stool of the Magisterium, sacred tradition, and holy Scripture, but on a one-legged stool of the Magisterium, which subjectively determines what Scripture and tradition are and how to interpret them. On March 5, 2008 Christie retired from professional football. Since the Catholic church is certain that the brothers of Jesus are anything other than biological siblings, meaning uterine siblings, why are they not able to be just a certain specifically who they are? They also didnt believe in the dogma either. No, thats not the case. Yes. Massive thanks to those who support us at locals and on Patreon. It is used this way consistently in the New Testament, as well as in the Septuagint where it is used over a hundred times, such as the Sister Kingdoms of Israel and Judah who worship the same one true God of the Old Testament. For example, it may be a reference to the minor prophet Zechariah (who was killed in the temple according to the Targum on Lamentations) as opposed to the Zechariah in Chronicles. Some of the ways Trent and I would agree that a dogma contradicts scripture is explicitly, implicitly, or partially. And Id probably want to make Peter the rock of the church. Yeah. Other doctors like Ambrose, Augustine, Irenaeus and others in the early church, like Tertullian, Origen, Hillary of Portier, and seven popes believed Mary was either conceived in sin or committed acts of personal sin, including Thomas Aquinas, as late as the 13th century. I do believe thats good evidence that Mary was Josephs second wife, at least thats my personal view, but that doesnt prove that Mary didnt give birth to others. Another piece of evidence against Christies claim that divine revelation ceased during the time of the deuterocanonical books is that the people of Jesus time believed there were contemporary prophets who spoke on behalf of God, such as John the Baptist and Jesus. Ive addressed some of them, but Ill address those other points hes brought up in my next rebuttal period. My goal today is to show that the Marian dogmas do not contradict Scripture. Theres no divine judgment on Mary in any form described here in Mark chapter three. Lets see how much we can get through. And Ill leave it at that. But in the infancy narrative, were just talking about the birth of the firstborn in accord with The Mosaic Law. Ill point to Mary in sacred tradition. So its not saying that he died. On July 2, 2007, Christie joined the Toronto Argonauts of the Canadian Football League by signing a practice roster agreement with the team. Can a conclusion be infallible if the underlying logic is false? Dont have the context of this question. However, he should have cited what Jimmy said immediately before that quote: It wasnt entirely clear to every group of Jews exactly what books belonged in the Old Testament., Akin goes on to write that Jesus and the apostles went a bit further than the Pharisees on the issue of the canon. She is not mentioning sin in any case. No, I can think of anything like that, but I would say that Marys status as being the God bearer would mean thered be many truths that are quite unique to her that we dont find in either old or New Testament. He would end up playing two years for the Buccaneers. The Bible doesnt say that apostles are baptized, but it certainly seems quite fitting that they would be given everything else. No, I dont think you are following my point. I like you Trent. All right. So summarize, the Bible does not teach that Mary sin nor does it teach that every single human being has committed a sin or inherited original sin without exception. Geoffrey Stephen Christie (born November 13, 1967)[1] is a former Canadian American football placekicker in the National Football League (NFL), who, as a member of the Buffalo Bills, became known for his ability to kick clutch field goals, even in poor weather. A person could be a Protestant, because we have to understand what a Protestant is and we have to go back to the Reformation for it. Christie, who grew up in Oakville, Ontario, graduated from The College of William and Mary and made his NFL debut with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 1990. And then take heart in knowing that these teachings about Mary dont contradict Scripture, and then we can further infer and try to understand what are the sources of divine revelation. Steven is related to James P Christie and Helen J Christie as well as 1 additional person. Scripture reveals Mary was a Virgin, but conflicts with her being a perpetual Virgin. And Steve has not ruled that out. Well done. And again, as a Roman Catholic, I would expect them to because their issue is not about Mary. Steve Christie: According to Robert Sungenis, president of Catholic Apologetics International, unlike Jesus Ascension assumptions in the Bible are under the power of God not the individual being assumed. That sums it up. Though a mere chip-shot, from 32 yards, the three-pointer enabled . Shameless plug. Were going to move to Trent now for his 15 minute opening. (Horn V. Christie). Second Corinthians is clear, God made him who knew no sin to become sin for us. Catholic answers the firms that while Mary was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin, yet she was not made exempt from the temporal penalties of Adam, such as death. This means not only was she conceived sinless, but remained sinless her entire life. For example, Denver seminary professor Joseph Dodson says, Scholars for at least three centuries have found value in comparing the deuterocanonical book of Wisdom and Romans (The Powers of Personification: Rhetorical Purpose in the Book of Wisdom and the Letter to the Romans). In week 1 vs. the Tennessee Titans, Christie went 3 for 4 on field-goal attempts (41, 42, & 33 yards). Check out our newest Lake Effect team. Okay. So yeah, this is awesome. 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